Kathryn Green
Episode Summary
When does trying to “eat healthy” cross the line into disordered eating or orthorexia, and how can you build a healthy relationship with food without becoming consumed by calories, macros, food rules or restrictive diets?
In this episode of Girls Gone Wellness, Jeanette and Victoria speak with Kathryn Green, CNP, holistic nutritionist, about disordered eating, orthorexia, eating-disorder recovery, food freedom, intuitive eating, diet culture, restrictive diets, celiac disease, the low-FODMAP diet, gluten and dairy elimination, mindful eating and nutrition misinformation on social media. Kathryn shares how her own experiences with celiac disease and an eating disorder shaped the way she approaches nutrition and her belief that nutrition advice should consider a person's relationship with food—not only what is on their plate.
A major theme is the difference between an eating disorder and the broader spectrum of disordered eating behaviours. Kathryn and the hosts discuss how food fear and rigid eating patterns can exist in people of different body sizes and may not always be recognized as a problem. Examples include being afraid to eat certain foods, eating the exact same meals every day, feeling anxious when somebody else prepares your food, compulsively meeting calorie, protein or exercise targets, and avoiding social situations because you cannot control what will be served.
The conversation explores orthorexia, which Kathryn describes as an obsession with eating “clean” or “healthy” foods. They discuss how a desire to improve nutrition can gradually turn into increasingly strict food rules—such as eliminating processed foods, carbohydrates, gluten, dairy or entire food groups—and how Instagram, TikTok, influencers and “what I eat in a day” videos can reinforce these behaviours.
Kathryn also explains why she avoids labelling foods as “good” or “bad” when working with people who have a history of disordered eating. Rather than immediately removing foods, she often focuses on what can be added to create a more balanced diet. The episode discusses a basic meal structure that includes protein, fat and fibre or a complex carbohydrate while still leaving room for foods eaten for enjoyment.
Food elimination is examined through Kathryn's personal experiences with celiac disease, lactose intolerance and the low-FODMAP diet. The conversation distinguishes medically necessary avoidance—such as avoiding gluten with celiac disease—from removing foods because they have been broadly labelled inflammatory or unhealthy online. Kathryn explains why restrictive therapeutic diets may require extra caution in people with an eating-disorder history and why foods removed temporarily may eventually need to be reintroduced when medically appropriate.
Another major topic is food freedom versus intuitive eating. Kathryn explains that intuitive eating is more complex than simply “eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full,” particularly during eating-disorder recovery, when hunger and fullness cues may be difficult to interpret. She discusses the role of regular meals, gradual exposure to previously feared foods, mindful eating and slowly rebuilding trust in the body.
The episode also addresses the importance of multidisciplinary care. Kathryn discusses referring patients to psychotherapists, psychologists and medical doctors when an eating disorder requires mental-health support, medical assessment or laboratory testing beyond her scope.
Finally, Jeanette, Victoria and Kathryn challenge common nutrition trends including raw vegan diets, carnivore diets, extreme fasting, food combining, excessive protein targets, “detox” carrot salads, chia-seed water for weight loss and the idea that gluten is unhealthy for everyone. The broader message is that healthy eating should support both physical and mental health—and that a nutrition plan is not truly healthy if maintaining it requires fear, guilt, anxiety or losing the ability to enjoy food and everyday life.
-
What is orthorexia?
Orthorexia refers to an unhealthy obsession with eating foods perceived as “clean,” pure or healthy. Kathryn describes patterns such as rigidly avoiding processed foods or entire food groups, being unable to deviate from food rules and becoming anxious about eating food prepared by other people.
What is the difference between an eating disorder and disordered eating?
Disordered eating can include restrictive, obsessive or fear-based behaviours around food even when someone does not have a diagnosed eating disorder. In the episode, Kathryn emphasizes that somebody can struggle with food rules, calorie obsession or food fear without identifying with diagnoses such as anorexia nervosa or bulimia nervosa.
Can someone have disordered eating at any body size?
Yes. Kathryn emphasizes that disordered eating is not limited to people in smaller bodies. Someone's body size does not necessarily reveal what their relationship with food, exercise or body image looks like.
What are signs that healthy eating may be becoming obsessive?
Warning signs discussed in the episode include rigid food rules, fear of specific foods, anxiety when eating outside the home, eating the same foods every day because changing them feels frightening, compulsively hitting nutrition or exercise targets and avoiding social events because you cannot control the food.
Can social media contribute to orthorexia or disordered eating?
Yes. The episode discusses how TikTok, Instagram, influencers, restrictive diets, “what I eat in a day” videos and clean-eating content can normalize increasingly rigid food behaviours. Kathryn explains that advice from people without nutrition training can make viewers afraid of foods that previously felt completely normal to eat.
What is food freedom?
Kathryn describes food freedom as being able to make food choices without rigid rules controlling every decision. It can include allowing yourself to eat enjoyable foods, eating in social situations and choosing something different from your usual meal without experiencing overwhelming guilt or anxiety.
Is intuitive eating just eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full?
No. Kathryn explains that intuitive eating is more nuanced, particularly for people recovering from an eating disorder. Hunger and fullness cues may initially be difficult to rely on, so regular meals and structured nourishment may still be important while someone gradually rebuilds trust in those internal signals.
Can intuitive eating be difficult during eating-disorder recovery?
Yes. Someone who has restricted food for a long time may have disrupted or difficult-to-interpret hunger and fullness cues. Kathryn discusses gradually rebuilding body trust rather than expecting somebody to abandon all structure and immediately rely exclusively on hunger.
Should foods be labelled “good” and “bad” when treating disordered eating?
Kathryn generally avoids labelling foods as morally good or bad when working with people who struggle with disordered eating. She explains that labelling a food “bad” can intensify fear and make it much harder to reintroduce that food later.
Do you need to avoid gluten if you do not have celiac disease?
Not necessarily. Kathryn has celiac disease and therefore must avoid gluten herself, but she challenges the idea that gluten is automatically unhealthy for everyone. The episode distinguishes medically necessary gluten avoidance from removing gluten simply because social-media wellness content has labelled it harmful.
Is dairy unhealthy for everyone?
No. The episode challenges blanket statements that everybody should eliminate dairy. Kathryn discusses her own history of avoiding dairy and later reintroducing it, emphasizing that tolerance and individual circumstances matter more than universal food rules.
Can a low-FODMAP diet be problematic for someone with an eating-disorder history?
It can be. Kathryn describes the low-FODMAP diet as helpful in some digestive-health situations but explains that, in her own experience, being placed on a restrictive diet while struggling with an eating disorder intensified food restriction. She emphasizes that therapeutic diets should be individualized and that the low-FODMAP diet is not intended to remain maximally restrictive indefinitely.
What should a balanced meal include?
Kathryn's general framework is to include protein, fat and fibre or a complex carbohydrate. She emphasizes overall dietary balance and whole foods without suggesting that every person needs to follow the same named diet.
When should other healthcare professionals be involved in eating-disorder care?
Kathryn recommends involving additional professionals when somebody is struggling with an eating disorder. She discusses referral to a psychotherapist or psychologist for mental-health treatment and to a medical doctor when medical assessment, physical examination or laboratory testing is needed.
Can protein goals become part of disordered eating?
Yes. Jeanette, Victoria and Kathryn discuss how even health-promoting behaviours can become rigid or compulsive. An example is forcing down additional protein late at night solely to reach a numerical target despite not being hungry, or becoming anxious about missing a prescribed protein goal.
Are restrictive diets ever appropriate?
Sometimes, but context matters. Kathryn discusses situations in which therapeutic dietary interventions may have a role while distinguishing them from extreme diets promoted as universally healthy. Her approach is generally individualized rather than routinely placing patients on rigidly labelled diets such as carnivore, keto or raw vegan diets.
-
This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability while preserving the substance of the conversation.
Jeanette
Welcome to Girls Gone Wellness, Kathryn. We're so excited to have you here today.
Kathryn Green
Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to come on.
I've been listening to the podcast pretty much since you started, so I'm very excited to have the opportunity to come on and talk to you guys today.
Victoria
Us too.
Why don't we get started with you telling us a little bit about how you got into holistic nutrition?
Kathryn Green
I've always been interested in nutrition and my health for as long as I can remember.
When I was 11 years old, I was diagnosed with celiac disease, and that was a big life change.
I used to be the girl who snacked on bread. My mom would go to COBS Bread and always be buying me so much bread because I was obsessed with it. It was my go-to snack.
So you can picture me as an 11-year-old crying when I found out I couldn't have bread anymore.
I had to learn about food, what I could and couldn't eat and experiment with different meals from a very young age.
I found it interesting but also confusing. Why could all my friends have gluten and eat the cupcakes at birthday parties when I couldn't?
My mom and grandma are huge cooks and bakers, so I learned a lot from them. We'd bake together on the weekends, and I tried to help cook dinners.
From a young age, I also saw dietitians to make sure I was getting enough nutrients.
Fast-forward to when I was 17. I developed an eating disorder, and part of my treatment was seeing a dietitian.
I thought that was beneficial, but I found that a lot of the focus was on calories and macros rather than actual nourishment.
At one point I was in the hospital and being given Ensure, and I remember wanting to read the ingredients.
That experience made me want to learn more about nourishment and nutrition, and that's how I got more interested in holistic nutrition rather than becoming a dietitian.
I thought very hard about that decision because dietitians are regulated, whereas holistic nutritionists aren't.
But I ultimately went with my gut feeling and thought about how I wanted to approach my practice and conversations with patients.
That's basically how I got into it.
Victoria
You're in a unique position.
A lot of people go to dietitians, nutritionists and naturopathic doctors, and even though I love nutrition, we do see situations where there's a lot of restriction, calorie counting, macro counting and an emphasis that can become obsessive.
Because of your life experience, you're now able to show up for patients in a way where you can work on diet and nutrition—which we know is important—without encouraging disordered behaviours.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
I think a lot of people who've gone through an eating disorder want to completely shut that part of their life out.
Obviously, it was a dark time in my life, but I do think it shaped me into the person I am today.
While it sucked at the time, it has helped me a lot.
I know how I want to approach patients and how I don't want to approach patients.
I've also dealt with other digestive issues.
I went through the low-FODMAP diet after my medical doctor recommended it while I was struggling with an eating disorder, and that escalated things for me.
Now I have a better understanding of what may or may not work for a particular person and how carefully some situations need to be approached.
Victoria
In our training, I honestly don't remember us talking much about eating disorders in nutrition.
One of our nutrition courses basically felt like an eating disorder in a class. It was brutal.
Then we get into clinic and supervisors say, “Make sure you're screening for eating disorders.”
And I'm thinking, how? Nobody taught us how to do this.
Did you talk about eating disorders in your nutrition training?
Kathryn Green
We had a couple of classes, but honestly not as much as I'd hoped.
There used to be a continuing-education course at my school on eating disorders. I thought, “Perfect,” and then they stopped doing it.
So I went out of my way to do additional learning.
There's a course through SickKids for practitioners on working with patients with eating disorders, and I volunteered there as well.
I also sit on the board of an eating-disorder foundation and have done that since my fourth year of university.
I've had a lot of additional experience that helped me learn how to screen, but in school itself, there wasn't as much as I hoped.
We went over all these different diets, but even when we practised patient intakes, the intake didn't necessarily include questions about someone's relationship with food.
I found that kind of crazy.
At the same time, I understand why this can be difficult.
If I'd been struggling for two months and hadn't been diagnosed with an eating disorder, I probably wouldn't have wanted to talk about it either.
But it does need to be discussed because one thing a practitioner says can potentially send a vulnerable person into a negative spiral.
Victoria
I'm also learning very quickly that asking, “What's your relationship with food?” isn't always enough.
Somebody might say, “It's great. I've never had any issues.”
Then a couple appointments later, you learn they're terrified of adding avocado because it's high in fat and they don't want to gain weight.
Sometimes people don't even realize they're struggling.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
I try to focus on mindset because diet culture is so prevalent, particularly on social media, that people can start thinking it's completely normal to fear certain foods.
When I do a three-day diet diary, I ask people to include how they're feeling mentally before and after the meal.
We often only think about physical symptoms: Do you feel bloated? Are you nauseous?
But I also want to know what's going on in your head.
Are you happy? Sad? Scared?
The mind and gut are so connected.
Victoria
People also think, “I don't have bulimia and I don't have anorexia, so I don't have an eating disorder.”
Maybe somebody doesn't have a diagnosed eating disorder, but disordered eating is a whole spectrum too.
Kathryn Green
One hundred percent.
Regardless of somebody's size, they can struggle with disordered eating.
They may not meet criteria for a diagnosed eating disorder, but they can still be struggling.
I think it's particularly difficult when somebody in a larger body is struggling because there's still this perception that you have to be very small to have an eating disorder or have problems with eating.
You can be any size.
If you're struggling or you're afraid of certain foods, that can be a sign that you may need to reach out and get support.
Victoria
Do you have a particular population you work with in practice? Is it mostly people with eating-disorder histories, or do you see a wider population?
Kathryn Green
Right now I see a lot of different people.
Not everyone I see struggles with an eating disorder.
I'd eventually like that to become a larger focus, but I'm still fairly early in practice, so I see more of a general population.
I focus on hormone health, gut health, disordered eating and food freedom.
Sometimes the hormone-health side can be challenging because I see people going through menopause or perimenopause where the entire conversation has become about weight gain.
I personally don't struggle with disordered eating anymore, and when I give patients advice, I'm not internalizing it as advice I also need to follow.
But I still have that part of my brain where weight-loss conversations can be difficult because of my history.
At the same time, there are patients in different stages of life and different situations where weight and metabolic health may be part of the discussion, so I try to keep an open mind.
Jeanette
I love your idea of asking patients how they feel before and after they eat.
One of our first podcast guests, Dr. Kim Bretz, talks a lot about gut health and the gut-brain interaction.
She discussed how powerful the mind can be and how being afraid of a food can affect the symptoms somebody experiences.
Kathryn Green
One hundred percent.
I love talking about nutrition and the brain.
I used to think I was lactose intolerant and had this huge fear of dairy.
I cut it out completely when I was struggling, and I had this idea that every time I ate dairy I would feel incredibly bloated.
I'd go into meals thinking, “I'm going to feel so bloated after I eat this ice cream.”
As I worked on my mindset, mentality and relationship with food, that changed for me.
I don't struggle with that anymore.
For me, it really showed how powerful it can be when you go into a meal already telling yourself that you're going to feel sick or bloated.
Jeanette
Before we go further, you mentioned the difference between dietitians and nutritionists.
Dietitians are regulated and holistic nutritionists aren't. Is there another difference you would highlight between the two?
Kathryn Green
From the way holistic nutrition was taught in my program, it's about taking a whole-body approach rather than focusing solely on food.
I can't give the exact formal definition of a dietitian, but based on my own experiences, I felt there was often more emphasis on food, calories and macronutrients.
Some holistic nutritionists focus heavily on calories and macros too, but that's not a major part of my own practice because, for me and some of the patients I work with, it can lead to a more rigid mindset.
In school, we spent quite a bit of time discussing the mental side of nutrition.
That's why I focus on the mindset somebody brings to a meal.
I use mindful-eating exercises: paying attention to hunger and fullness cues when appropriate, noticing flavours and textures and cultivating gratitude for nourishing meals.
I also spend time talking about lifestyle factors and habits.
That can include movement and exercise, although I'm not a certified personal trainer, as well as other lifestyle strategies we learned about in school.
Jeanette
That whole-person philosophy sounds very similar to naturopathic medicine.
Nutrition is obviously personalized, and two patients with the same concern can still have very different nutrition plans.
But if you could give one general nutritional framework that many people could benefit from, what would it look like?
Kathryn Green
I get asked this a lot.
Social media makes it hard because people constantly message me saying, “I saw this on TikTok. Is it true?”
Generally, I recommend focusing on a whole-food approach while still allowing yourself to have packaged foods or foods you're craving.
I'm looking primarily at whole foods and making sure a meal has a protein, fat and fibre or a complex carbohydrate.
That's a basic framework I can use with a lot of people.
I don't think there's one specific diet that works for everybody.
There's always a trending diet, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for everyone.
Victoria
I'm going to fight you on the “shop the perimeter of the grocery store” thing.
I used to say it all the time, and I understand the philosophy, but grocery stores have changed.
Hot dogs can be on the perimeter. Pillsbury cookie dough is there.
Meanwhile, protein powder and chia seeds can be in the middle aisles.
So I've started challenging that phrase because it's not as accurate as it used to be.
Kathryn Green
That's true.
When I picture my local grocery store, the first area is fruits and vegetables and then there are the meat and poultry sections.
So maybe it's more about focusing on those foods first rather than automatically going straight to packaged products.
But I agree—the store has changed.
When I picture the very back corner of my grocery store now, there are all sorts of dairy alternatives and meat alternatives.
So I should probably reframe that phrase.
Victoria
Maybe the better message is more whole foods, fewer ultra-processed foods.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
Jeanette
As a nutritionist, what do patients usually come to you eating?
Are they generally following a “healthy” diet already? Are they following diet trends? Or do they simply not know where to start?
Kathryn Green
It's a mix.
Some people have no idea how to put together a balanced diet.
They might be busy parents, working and managing kids, so they're eating a lot of packaged food or eating out because that's what fits their life.
Then I have people who come in following something like a raw-food diet. They're eating huge amounts of raw vegetables and experiencing a ton of bloating.
They'll say, “But I thought salads were healthy.”
A lot of what I do is reframing.
Some patients know an enormous amount and do a lot of research, but sometimes it isn't the most reliable research.
They may fall into something like, “You have to be raw vegan to be healthy and live a long life.”
Then we work together to challenge those beliefs and figure out what foods work well for their body.
I also have people who eat a generally balanced whole-food diet but struggle with symptoms such as bloating or nausea.
Then we may use conversations, diet diaries and, where appropriate, other assessment or testing through their healthcare team to learn more about what might be affecting them.
Victoria
How do you navigate working with somebody with an eating disorder when your treatment as a holistic nutritionist is obviously going to involve food?
Kathryn Green
You have to be incredibly careful about what you say.
When I was seeing dietitians during my eating disorder, if somebody told me not to eat a certain food, my brain interpreted that as, “Okay, I'm never eating that food again.”
A professional told me not to have it, so in my mind that meant I couldn't have it.
One of my biggest principles is not naming foods as “good” and “bad.”
Even if somebody is eating something that isn't necessarily nutrient-dense, I'm very careful about moralizing that food, particularly with somebody who has an eating disorder or disordered eating.
That can be very detrimental.
My mindset now is that all foods can fit.
I'm a nutritionist and I eat ice cream.
I eat foods that some people would label unhealthy because I believe there can be a place for enjoyable foods.
When I'm working with somebody with disordered eating, I also focus on adding foods rather than immediately taking foods away.
If we're constantly removing things, that can reinforce restriction and create fear around ever adding those foods back.
That's what happened to me with the low-FODMAP diet.
When you're told to cut out a food, it's easy to demonize it.
Unless somebody has something like an allergy or a medical reason that means they truly cannot eat the food, a food removed temporarily may need to be reintroduced later.
If we label it as “bad” from the beginning, that reintroduction can become incredibly difficult.
Then we come back to the mindset piece.
If you already believe, “This cheese is going to make me feel awful and bloated,” that expectation can become part of the experience.
So I have to slow down with those patients.
They're vulnerable, and I'm careful with how I phrase things.
The two biggest principles for me are not labelling foods good or bad and focusing more on adding than removing.
Jeanette
I love that.
In wellness, dairy and gluten are automatically labelled bad so often.
Obviously celiac disease or lactose intolerance changes the conversation, but if somebody hears over and over from social media that gluten and dairy are bad, they may start avoiding those foods even when they don't need to.
Then they become terrified to add them back.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
I have celiac disease, and when I was first diagnosed my friends would say, “You can't eat that.”
Then when I got older and diet culture became more prevalent, suddenly everybody was saying, “It's so good that you don't eat gluten!”
And I was thinking, I would absolutely be eating bread if I could.
People also assume every gluten-free packaged food is automatically healthier.
That's not necessarily true.
Some gluten-free products can have long ingredient lists and are not automatically more nutritious than the conventional version.
The same thing happened to me with dairy.
I believed dairy caused my acne, made me bloated and was inflammatory because those were the messages I kept seeing.
Eventually I started adding regular milk back into my coffee.
Now I'm fine doing that.
Some people are told they need almond milk because dairy is “bad,” but depending on the person and the product, a plant-based milk may also contain ingredients that don't work well for them.
We've made nutrition so much more complicated than it needs to be.
Jeanette
Vic and I talk about that all the time.
Whole foods, vegetables, protein, fibre—there are basic principles that don't have to be complicated.
When we focus on every tiny detail, it becomes overwhelming.
Kathryn Green
And expensive.
People are told they need this alternative and that alternative, and suddenly everything costs three times as much as regular bread, cheese or milk.
Grocery prices are already high, and organic food can be expensive.
If you're adding specialized grain-free tortilla chips and every wellness replacement on top of that, healthy eating starts to feel completely unaffordable.
Jeanette
When somebody has an eating disorder, there may need to be additional practitioners on the healthcare team to deal with the psychological and medical pieces.
Do you refer patients to therapists, psychologists or medical doctors?
Kathryn Green
Absolutely.
If I have somebody struggling with an eating disorder and they aren't already seeing a therapist, I recommend that right away because therapists are much more trained in the mental-health side.
Sometimes an appointment naturally starts turning into a much deeper psychological conversation, and that's when I have to recognize that this isn't supposed to become a therapy session.
Both clinics where I work have psychotherapists, so I'm able to refer within the clinic, which is great.
Depending on how much somebody is eating and how concerned I am about nutritional adequacy, I may also recommend they see a medical doctor so they can have blood work and a proper medical assessment.
As a holistic nutritionist, I can't perform the same physical examination that a medical or naturopathic doctor can.
So with disordered eating, I do refer out when that medical assessment is needed.
Victoria
Do you ever share your personal eating-disorder history with patients?
Kathryn Green
Sometimes.
I don't want an appointment to become about me.
I also still have this irrational fear sometimes that somebody won't take me seriously because I've struggled with an eating disorder.
When I really think about it, I'd probably have appreciated knowing my nutritionist had gone through something similar because it can make you feel understood.
But I also don't want somebody to compare themselves with me.
I'm very open about my history on social media, so patients who follow me there may already know.
But I don't automatically make it part of every patient session.
Victoria
Do you ever get patients who are almost resistant to the idea that their eating is disordered?
Someone might say, “I don't have a problem. I just count every calorie I eat and have done it since I was 16.”
Maybe they came to you actually hoping you'll give them more restrictive advice.
How do you approach that?
Kathryn Green
I haven't had too many patients exactly like that.
But I have people who tell me their entire routine and eat the exact same thing every day.
My approach is often, “Let's challenge this. Let's try something different and see how you feel.”
Maybe you'll have more energy. Maybe you'll actually feel better.
The reaction can also tell me something.
If I suggest a small change and somebody immediately says, “No, I can't do that,” then I start wondering how much rigidity and fear are involved.
If you need to have the exact same smoothie every morning and changing breakfast feels impossible, that's worth exploring.
With somebody who struggles with disordered eating, I make changes slowly.
Trying to change everything at once can be completely overwhelming.
Sometimes people come in wanting a restrictive diet, and if I don't give them what they were expecting, they don't come back.
That's hard because I know they're struggling, but they may need additional psychological support beyond what I can provide.
You also can't be overly aggressive.
Ultimately, the person has to be ready to engage in the process.
Jeanette
People usually think of anorexia and bulimia when they hear “eating disorder,” but we also hear more about orthorexia now.
Can you explain what orthorexia is and what it might look like?
Kathryn Green
I think of orthorexia as an obsession with “clean eating.”
What that looks like varies between people, but it may mean refusing anything processed or packaged and only allowing yourself certain proteins, vegetables or fruits.
I also often see people with that pattern avoiding carbohydrates.
The issue isn't simply that someone likes nutritious food.
It's when the person becomes obsessed with eating “clean” and cannot deviate from the rules.
They can't enjoy dinner with friends because they're thinking, “I need the salad with exactly this amount of protein.”
Social media has really normalized this.
Instagram and TikTok showcase idealized images of health and wellness, and strict adherence to certain diets or food choices starts to look like the definition of health and success.
Influencers and celebrities promote diets that eliminate whole food groups or emphasize purity in food choices.
People look up to them and adopt those behaviours without always considering what it can do to their mental health.
And a lot of the people giving this advice don't have formal nutrition training.
Kathryn Green
I had my own experience with that in university.
There was an influencer named Kenzie Burke who became very popular for “food combining.”
It involved rules around when you could eat certain foods, eating fruit first and separating certain types of foods.
It took over the internet.
I became afraid to eat fruit unless I ate it at the “right” time.
I remember thinking, “I can't eat carbohydrates and protein together.”
I was scared to have an apple in the afternoon because of something an influencer without nutrition training had said online.
I had friends who struggled with it too.
We looked up to her and thought, “She's the definition of health.”
But the result was that people became more scared of food.
Victoria
We call this “dopamine medicine.”
Saying “fruit is healthy” isn't exciting anymore.
Everybody has heard that.
But somebody says, “If you put a banana in a smoothie, something terrible is going to happen,” and suddenly everybody pays attention because it's novel and dramatic.
It drives me nuts.
I have family members who won't take my advice after years of post-secondary education, but they'll send me a Reel and say, “I'm going to do this diet.”
Kathryn Green
I literally remember making a smoothie under those food-combining rules.
There was some rule about bananas and what you could combine them with.
I ended up making a smoothie with banana, spinach and cucumber.
It was awful.
But I listened to this person anyway.
It can take so much time to recover from a disordered pattern that began because of one thing an influencer said or one trend that blew up on TikTok.
Instagram and TikTok are huge contributors to clean-eating messaging.
You'll see advertisements for greens powders or a smoothie that's supposedly going to make you lose weight in ten days.
And I'm thinking, how are people believing this?
But they do.
Victoria
There's this pipeline from clean eating into disordered eating where people often don't even know they're on it.
Maybe you start by trying to lose five pounds for your wedding or put on some muscle.
Then suddenly you're anxious when somebody else cooks for you because you don't know what oil they used.
Or you bring your own meal to a family event because you don't know what they're serving.
It gets out of hand gradually.
Kathryn Green
It's so normalized.
Before people knew I was struggling, I got praised.
People said, “You're working out every day. You eat so healthy. That's amazing.”
That praise reinforced it.
I thought, “I should keep going. I'm doing so well.”
Meanwhile, internally I was struggling.
It can start with something that seems innocent: wanting to eat healthier or exercise more.
Then it can spiral.
I do think awareness of disordered eating has improved, so maybe more people recognize those signs now.
But it's hard when behaviours that look “healthy” on the outside are actually making somebody's health and quality of life worse.
Jeanette
There's another side too.
Protein is huge right now, which is great in many contexts.
But somebody can think, “I need 150 grams of protein,” and then they're eating five protein bars at 9 p.m. when they're not remotely hungry because they have to hit the number.
That can become rigid too.
Kathryn Green
I agree.
I see that especially in people trying to build muscle.
Protein is important, but too much of anything or becoming obsessive about a target can become a problem.
You also see claims like, “You must have exactly this amount of protein within 30 minutes after your workout.”
Then somebody feels like they have to sprint home from the gym to eat.
If you're not hungry at 9 p.m., you shouldn't necessarily feel compelled to force yourself to eat a pile of protein just to satisfy an arbitrary target.
It's similar to realizing at 10 p.m. that you haven't hit your step count and feeling like you have to go on the treadmill.
Victoria
Our careers can contribute to this too.
I've realized that my job would be much easier if somebody came to me wanting to lose weight and I simply said, “Get rid of gluten, dairy, soy, corn and rice.”
That's easy.
It's much harder to actually educate somebody on how to eat properly and sustainably.
Jeanette
A supervisor said something to me that stuck: healthcare practitioners working with nutrition can be really good at giving people eating disorders.
Some practitioners automatically start with an elimination diet before they've even discussed what the patient currently eats or screened for disordered eating.
I hope we're getting better at that.
Kathryn Green
I do think it's improving.
We're more aware of eating disorders and disordered eating than we were before.
But there is still a long way to go.
Even outside the patient setting, my friends sometimes say, “Don't judge me for eating this. I know you're a nutritionist.”
And I'm thinking, just because I'm a nutritionist doesn't mean I don't enjoy foods people label unhealthy.
I'm not judging you.
Before I got into the field, I also thought I had to have this perfectly healthy diet in order to be a nutritionist.
I've even had that mindset around acne.
I sometimes help people with skin health, and I have acne myself.
For a long time I thought, “How can I help patients with acne if I also have acne?”
I felt like I had to look perfect in order for patients to trust me.
That's its own unhealthy mindset.
Jeanette
Vic and I can relate.
There's pressure in wellness to live the perfect lifestyle, go to the gym constantly and eat the perfect diet.
But that's not feasible.
And if you actually live like a human being, you may be better able to relate to patients and their struggles.
Let's talk about food freedom.
How do you define it, and how is it similar to or different from intuitive eating?
Kathryn Green
My definition of food freedom can change a little bit, but I think of it as being able to eat something you're craving without a set of rules controlling when you're “allowed” to eat it.
If you're craving ice cream, for example, you're not necessarily thinking, “I can only have this at this specific approved time.”
You're not letting food rules run your life.
It's similar to intuitive eating, but I think intuitive eating is often oversimplified online.
People hear, “Eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.”
It's much more complicated than that.
When somebody is struggling with an eating disorder, hunger and fullness cues can be all over the place.
I remember going through a period when I rarely felt hungry.
If I had interpreted intuitive eating as “only eat when you're hungry,” that would not have been safe or helpful for me because I wouldn't have eaten enough.
With patients who are recovering from restriction, I think structure can still matter.
Yes, we're eventually paying attention to hunger and fullness, but we're also making sure they're eating regular meals.
If somebody wakes up and isn't hungry, instead of automatically skipping breakfast until lunchtime, maybe they have something smaller: an egg on toast, yogurt and berries or something else that feels manageable.
Sometimes after you start eating, you realize you actually are hungry.
I don't rely heavily on hunger and fullness cues immediately with somebody who has disordered eating because those signals can be difficult for them to interpret after prolonged restriction.
Intuitive eating may become more useful later, but not necessarily on day one.
Victoria
That's so true.
For people with disordered eating, the idea of intuitive eating can also be terrifying.
I've struggled with disordered eating and orthorexia myself.
For me, intuitive eating used to feel like, “If I let go of control, I'm going to eat everything.”
Disordered eating is often so connected to control and a lack of trust in yourself.
It can feel like, “If I trust myself, I'm going to gain all this weight, so I'm not willing to let go.”
How do you help patients rebuild that self-trust?
Kathryn Green
Mindset is huge.
Before going into a meal, I encourage somebody to ask how they're feeling and what would nourish them right now.
What is going to make you feel your best?
That may sound silly to somebody who has never thought about food this way, but it can be helpful to actually ask the question—even out loud or in a journal.
At first, change is difficult.
But small changes slowly help rebuild trust in your body.
I never thought I'd be able to eat intuitively again.
I thought numbers and food rules would always be in my head.
But I slowly started loosening the rules.
I changed up meals instead of eating the exact same thing every day.
It wasn't a dramatic overnight change.
Maybe I started by adding a tiny bit of almond butter to an apple.
Maybe one morning I had toast and avocado instead of the smoothie I usually ate.
Small changes can eventually create a much bigger outcome.
It's difficult when you've spent a long time thinking, “I can't trust myself. I need to stay on this path. I can't change anything because I'll lose control.”
Control is a huge part of disordered eating.
During COVID, when people felt like so many aspects of life were outside of their control, food could become one of the things they felt they could control.
That's also part of why it can be difficult when somebody comes to see me.
They're holding very tightly to that control, and I'm saying, “Let's try something different.”
It takes time.
But over time, you can get to a place where you can go out with friends without panicking about how the restaurant cooked your meal.
I remember asking for no oil and no dressing and spending the entire social event thinking about the food.
I wasn't actually enjoying the time with my friends or family.
Recovery from those food rules is possible. It just takes time, support and slowly allowing yourself to move outside the rules that have been controlling you.
Jeanette
That's why a full healthcare team can be so important: a holistic nutritionist, therapist, naturopathic doctor, medical doctor.
There are so many different pieces.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
My dream is actually to be able to incorporate more of the mental-health side myself.
I was accepted into a master's program in counselling psychology with the goal of potentially becoming a therapist and being able to bring nutrition and therapy together.
They're so connected.
I haven't completely decided whether I'm going to do the program yet, but that's the goal.
Sometimes somebody sees a nutritionist or dietitian and the nutrition side gets addressed, but what's happening mentally isn't fully addressed.
I'd love to be able to bridge those pieces.
Jeanette
We've talked about all the extreme diets we see online: raw vegan, carnivore, fruit-only diets, fasting.
Is there a “right” diet?
And is there ever a place for a therapeutic diet such as low-FODMAP?
Kathryn Green
There are some wild diets out there.
I do think there can be a time and place for certain therapeutic diets.
There are also diets I would personally never recommend, such as putting an average person on a carnivore diet.
I generally don't like putting somebody on a highly labelled diet at all.
I'd rather individualize the plan.
Extreme raw vegan diets are another example.
You have to consider whether the person is actually getting the nutrients they need.
I'm a big believer in food and nutrition first where possible rather than automatically spending a huge amount on supplements.
There are therapeutic situations outside my scope where more specialized dietary strategies may be used.
But for the average person I see, I'm not recommending extreme fasting protocols or highly restrictive diets without a very specific reason.
The low-FODMAP diet is the one I feel very conflicted about because it was so negative for me personally, but my sister had digestive issues and found it helpful while she was on it.
The difficulty was coming off it.
It's not designed to be a permanently maximally restrictive diet.
So sometimes it's about trial and error, the individual patient and whether there's a clear reason to use it.
I generally customize nutrition rather than saying, “You're going on this exact named diet.”
Jeanette
So you're not recommending a full stick of butter every morning?
Victoria
What?
Kathryn Green
No.
If somebody wants butter in their coffee, they can make their own choice, but it's not something I'm recommending.
Jeanette
There's someone who constantly comes up on our Instagram feed because our Explore page is wild from myth-busting content.
She eats a full carnivore diet and starts the day with a huge amount of butter and gelatin.
Kathryn Green
It's also not feasible for the majority of the population.
I've seen another person take a shot of olive oil every day.
And I'm thinking, you can just put olive oil on your salad.
There are so many nutrition trends where somebody presents a ritual as though everyone needs to do it in order to look or feel a certain way.
And people believe it.
Victoria
That's why “what I eat in a day” videos drive us crazy.
If I made one, nobody would know about the secret grilled-cheese sandwich I eat at two in the afternoon.
I'd leave out the times I'm standing at the cupboard snacking on chips.
People aren't showing everything.
Kathryn Green
Exactly.
I've never posted a “what I eat in a day,” even though people ask me to.
When I was struggling, I was obsessed with those videos.
I'd think, “I need to eat like her so I can look like her.”
So that's something I personally choose not to post.
I'll do something like a week of lunch ideas or breakfast ideas, but not a complete “what I eat in a day.”
People can use those videos as a template for exactly what they think they're supposed to eat.
Victoria
Jeanette and I talk about “good-for-the-soul foods.”
Jeanette's is Miss Vickie's salt-and-vinegar chips, which I am personally appalled by.
Mine is popcorn or tortilla chips and dip.
What's yours?
Kathryn Green
Tortilla chips and guacamole. I could eat piles of that.
And ice cream. I love ice cream.
Even when I thought I was lactose intolerant, I still loved ice cream.
Those would probably be my two soul foods.
I like that term.
Jeanette
And I stand by salt-and-vinegar chips.
Kathryn Green
I love salt and vinegar too.
I can't have the Miss Vickie's version because of the gluten, so I have Lay's.
Victoria
I'm going to head out.
Salt-and-vinegar chips literally hurt my mouth. They burn the top of my mouth.
Kathryn Green
Do you like pickles?
Victoria
No.
Kathryn Green
That explains it.
Victoria
We've talked about nutrition myths all episode.
If you could pick the ones you see over and over again that drive you the craziest, what would they be?
Kathryn Green
It's hard to pick one, so I'll do a few.
First, the raw carrot salad that's supposedly going to “detox estrogen.”
My mom sent it to me and asked if it was true.
And I'm like, no. If you like carrots, add carrots to a regular salad. You don't need to eat a bowl of shredded carrots every day because somebody told you it will detox estrogen.
Another one is chia-seed water with lemon being promoted specifically for weight loss.
Chia seeds contain fibre. It can be a perfectly fine drink.
But stop telling people that drinking it is magically going to make them lose weight.
For somebody who is already obsessive, it can also become another compulsory step in the morning routine.
And the third is the idea that gluten is bad for everybody.
That really bothers me because there are nutritious grains that contain gluten.
If I didn't have celiac disease, I would eat gluten.
People assume being gluten-free is automatically healthier, then buy gluten-free packaged products without reading anything else about the product.
Gluten-free does not automatically mean healthier.
Those are probably my top three.
Victoria
The raw carrot salad.
I knew it was coming.
This has been so informative.
Where can listeners find you, learn more about you and book with you?
Kathryn Green
You can find me on Instagram at Kathryn Green Health.
My website is KathrynGreenHealth.com, and my booking links are available through my Instagram and website.
I see patients through West End Women's Health and Well BYND in Toronto.
Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun chatting with you guys.
Victoria
Us too. Thanks so much for being here.
Kathryn Green
Thank you.
-
Kathryn Green Health started as a micro-blog on Instagram, where she would share some of her favourite recipes, workouts, her journey with celiac disease, and her love for health and wellness. Once Kathryn graduated from Queen's University in Health Studies, she pursued her passion for nutrition at the Institute of Holistic Nutrition. In 2023, Kathryn graduated with first-class honours from the Institute of Holistic Nutrition in Toronto as a Certified Nutritional Practioner.
Kathryn is currently completing her Master's in Counselling Psychology and is working towards becoming a Registered Psychotherapist. Once completed, Kathryn will offer therapy sessions and sessions tailored to working on individuals mind-gut connection.